Little Dave,
Scratch my comment referencing the term "kingdom now." After I posted the term I started second guessing myself. I'm glad I did. I did a word search on Wikapedia for "kingdom now." It is NOT what I meant.
Good observations and questions, little Dave. There's so much in the bible concerning the kingdom, and it really IS a tough subject! I should spend more time on it, but I think certain passages are speaking of different aspects of the kingdom, and it's our job to decipher the application of each. Not always easy. But in your post I saw the two main usages of the kingdom and wanted to throw in my two cents.
?Kingdom? actually means the reign of God (check Strong?s # 932), and I?ve been ignoring the word ?kingdom? the last few months and inserting the word ?reign? or ?reign of God,? which ever fits better, as I?ve been reading lately. I?m not exactly sure why, but I?ve enjoyed it! J It seems to have helped me have a little different perspective and it forces me to understand each verse better.
Anyway, my two cents: There is the ?kingdom now? as some call it, and this is the spiritual kingdom, or reign of God, in followers of Christ in the present imperfect world. It also seems to be linked to the reign presently being accomplished by God over the entire universe. God is reigning in and over us.
BUT then there are verses that are not speaking of this aspect of the kingdom (though the two are obviously linked), but are speaking of His literal kingdom that is yet to be fully established. One example would be in Dan.
In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever. (Dan. 2:44)
Discerning which is which can be difficult, at times, and understanding the link between the two aspects of the kingdom is a journey that I have not yet mastered. I?ll let you know when I do.
I know this isn't completely what Big Dave was asking, but it's what I thought of after reading your post, Little Dave.
I jumped into this question believing that I could find some insight by looking at all the passages where Jesus teaches on the church and all those where he teaches on the Kingdom. Perhaps I should have started with the church, because he had much to say about the Kingdom and I was quickly overwhelmed. I am not giving up though!
As to the question of how the Church and the Kingdom differ, my first thoughts on the subject have been that the Church must be a part of the Kingdom . . . some sort of subset. Because it seems that there must be parts of the kingdom that are not part of the Church. Certainly heaven is a part of the Kingdom. So it makes me think that the Church has boundaries within the contest of the Kingdom.
I am wondering what those boundaries look like. I am also wondering what we might miss about the Kingdom if we separate the Church from the Kingdom in our minds, or, if we equate the Church with the Kingdom.
Some interesting observations about the Kingdom from Matthew and first parts of Mark:
It is eternal.
It has good news.
It belongs to the poor in spirit and to those who are persecuted for righteousness.
Men can become the greatest or least within it.
The Kingdom is not present on earth the way it is in heaven.
We can seek it (or not seek it).
Not everyone who calls Jesus Lord, is a part of it (but he who does the will of the Father IS).
It is forcefully advancing.
It has been (is being) prepared for us.
The Kingdom is not divided.
It is hard to enter.
It has secrets.
Jesus talks about it a ton!
King & Kingdom - what do you think?
Statements from the Indepth podcast:
?Jesus had little to say about church but much to say about the Kingdom.?
?We should become experts in the Kingdom.?
?We find ourselves by losing ourselves.?
Question:
How have you seen the Kingdom growing in and around you?
What do you think?
Comment by Ryan on 2007-12-12 11:31:44
As far as kingdom vs. church goes, I can only find the word 'church' used three times by Jesus in the gospels. He used 'kingdom' well over 100 times. Perhaps one of the things that keeps believers from discussing the Kingdom is the mysterious nature of it. The way the kingdom works is counter-intuitive. It pays workers the same no matter how long they work. It makes people do "crazy" things like sell all they have. And it is within us, invisible.
Combine that with the fact that most people associate the word church with something (literally) concrete and easier to understand, and it makes sense that many focus on the church over the Kingdom. But to do that is to miss the boat as far as the joy of walking with God is concerned.